Now that all the hullabaloo surrounding our 50th episode is behind us, the NXpress can continue on with business as usual: tackling the tough topics of the gaming world. This week we discuss a recent situation where the creator of That Dragon, Cancer spoke out against Let’s Plays. Should there be limits on how much of a video game can be shown in order to protect the massive investment of time and money the creators put into developing? After that debate, the crew opts for a lighter conversation for the main segment, a review of Nintendo’s new social app, Miitomo. We’ve all played it (some more than others), and opinions are varied. One thing we can all agree on though is that it’s very Nintendo. Finally, we talk about gamer labels, and whether terms such as “hardcore” or “casual” gamers need to be put to rest in favor of more accurate descriptions. All this and more, so have a listen!
[powerpress]
Episode Playlist
00:00: Intro
01:00: Nintendosage: The problem with Let’s Play Videos
22:00: South Park clip
23:00: The Main Event: Miitomo review
56:00: DJ Shadow – “Building Steam”
55:00: Bonus Content: The problem with the term “hardcore gamer”
65:00: The XX – “Intro”
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ex fact0r
April 7, 2016 at 8:33 am
I honestly have no idea how you guys got to this subject based on the post I made last week, but since you did: society loves to label people and groups. Humanity has always done it, and always will. The term ‘cinephile’ can be used as in endearing term, or a negative term, just like ‘hardcore gamer’ or ‘casual gamer’ can be. If you want to put a negative connotation on any of those terms, then that’s your perception. The fact of the matter is, there will always be these types of classifications made, it’s just human nature, and there is no harm in it.
A person like me who spends thousands of dollars on video games every year and a person who plays Candy Crush Saga once every 3 months can both be considered ‘gamers’, but do you honestly think it’s not justified to have a distinct label between these 2 types of gamers? It definitely is, for many, many reasons, such as advertising/marketing and development of certain games. It’s a fact that certain games are made for certain audiences in mind, and if you think that there aren’t boardroom meetings that go on where people say “well this game will be targeted at the casual market, so we have to advertise/develop in so and so a way”, then you’re crazy. These labels exist for reasons, and they aren’t going away any time soon, but you don’t have to attach a negative stigma to them. And as far as not liking the term ‘hardcore gamer’… well, I don’t like the term ‘cinephile’, it instantly brings to mind the word ‘pedophile’…
This is pretty much a fact: The Wii was initially targeted at Non-Gamers, meaning people who at the time did not play games (your parents, your grandparents, your girlfriend). They got these people in with their motion control “revolution”. Once they began playing games, sure, you can call them ‘gamers’, but the fact of the matter is, many of those people who spent a few hours playing Wii sports never played another game again, hence the Wii’s rapid drop off. They can call themselves ‘gamers’ if they want, they can write it on their tombstone for all I care, that’s completely irrelevant to the point I was making. The whole point of my statement on the other podcast was who VR is being created for Vs. who motion control was created for… but you guys somehow missed that I guess…
Wii sports is objectively a bad game. It looks bad, it lacks any sort of depth, and it even PLAYS bad (the motion controls are soooo poor, hence the later introduction of the “Wiimotion Plus” to try and actually get 1:1 movement). Does that mean it’s not fun to play? No, of course not. It could be fun to sit around and play with some friends/family, but that doesn’t change the fact that its bad. And are you guys really trying to relate sales to quality? God damn, I guess Transformers 3 is a ****ing fantastic movie then… please guys.
@Rick – Go ahead and check the name of NXPress #46. There have been multiple times when you’ve made the comparison between Zelda 2 and Dark Souls, and it’s a horrible comparison. I don’t know why you’d even say you made the comparison as a ‘joke’, because you’re not making a joke, just like Tim said in this podcast, your making the comparison because you feel Zelda 2 is ‘hard’ and thus comparable, but I’m saying its not because Dark Souls is so much more than simply a ‘hard’ game, and when actually comparing the 2 games, Zelda 2 would be put to complete and utter shame.
Also, when I said ‘journalists’ in my other post, I was speaking broad term, meaning writers for any gaming site, I wasn’t speaking solely about you. And yes, you are a journalist. You produce written content that is published and presented to the masses for consumption… that’s kinda the definition of the word ‘journalist’
Ricky D
April 8, 2016 at 2:27 am
First, thank you once again for listening to our show and remaining our number one fan, even if you hate the podcast.
Have you ever seen White Men Can’t Jump? Of course you haven’t. There’s this great line spoken by Wesley Snipes to Woody Harrelson’s Billy Hoyle:
Sidney (Snipes) tells Hoyle that while he is hearing the words coming out of his mouth, he isn’t actually listening to what he is saying.
We decided to talk about the topic simply because I didn’t have enough time to finish Link’s Awakening and we needed a back-up plan. I had just read your comment and I thought why not throw this into the mix since we were short a subject. It was a last minute decision.
We never said that someone who plays Candy Crush once every three months is a gamer. What we said, is, that someone who regularly play games, be it on cell phones, tablets, consoles or on their personal computer is a gamer. So I’m not sure why you are bringing up that comparison?
I don’t like the term cinephile also, but that wasn’t the topic of our discussion. I was simply stating that I don’t like the term hardcore gamer because I feel that there isn’t a majority of gamers/journalists who have agreed as to what the terms means exactly. I also think someone can coin a better phrase.
I’m not sure why you are bringing up the Wii again and who Nintendo was targeting with Wii Sports. Again, this wasn’t the point of our discussion. We mentioned Wii Sports simply to make a point that gamers did play that game for hours on end. And so if someone like Patrick put in 100 hours into Wii Sports while you put in 200 hours into Dark Souls, that still doesn’t take away the fact that he is a gamer.
Calling Wii Sports bad is obviously on opinion. You are entitled to your opinion. Some people think Ocarina of Time is a bad game, while many others consider it the greatest game.
Transformers 3 is not anywhere near good in my eyes, but it is better than TypoMan :p
What I said this week is that Tim was the first to say that Zelda II is the Dark Souls of NES games and yet for some reason I was singled out. He not only said it first, but he’s said it five weeks in a row. Yet, somehow I am always the one singled out. That was the point I was making.
But seriously, Zelda II is the Dark Souls of the NES console.
If you are going to go ahead and speak in broad terms and call me a journalist, would anyone with a blog be considered a journalist? Joe Blow has a blog and the only person that reads it is his mom… but that doesn’t mean he is a journalist.
Check out J. O’dell’s essay on the topic. It is a great read. Here’s the link:
https://jolieodell.wordpress.com/2010/07/21/how-to-tell-a-journalist-from-a-blogger/
Ricky
p.s.
I’m not sure what a pedophile is but are you saying that we should replace the term hardcore gamers with that instead? Does the P stand for Pixel?
ex fact0r
April 8, 2016 at 8:26 am
There’s just so much wrong with your post, I don’t have the mental fortitude to correct it all, so i’ll keep this brief…
– I said Wii sports is objectively bad. That isn’t an opinion. This doesn’t mean the game cannot be “fun”, it can be, but its also bad. Anyone who says Ocarina of Time is bad is simply an idiot, because you cannot make an objective argument to support that opinion. You can say that you personally do not like the game, that’s fine. I don’t like RE4 for many reasons, but I cannot call the game bad, because I am not an idiot. Wii Sports on the other hand, is bad.
– I never once at any point singled you out when pointing out how Zelda 2 Vs. Dark Souls is a terrible comparison. I said I hate when ANY games journalists make comparisons to Dark Souls, because I see these comparisons popping up constantly these days. I only mentioned you by name to state that unlike you, I don’t list every game under the sun as “the greatest game of all time”.
– No, people who blog about what they ate for breakfast are not journalists. You, on the other hand, are a journalist, because you actively write, and publish news related articles for the public. If you somehow disagree with this, take it up with the Oxford dictionary.
Patrick
April 8, 2016 at 5:36 pm
Um, labeling anything “good” or “bad” is pure opinion. They are completely and utterly subjective words dependent on viewpoint and context. Wii Sports might be bad to you, but as I’ve said before, your opinion isn’t fact. As far as I’m aware there aren’t written rules of what a “good” game must be, so until you can support your argument objectively (which, of course, you have not even tried to do), no need to sound like a broken record. We get it; you don’t like the game.
Also, you could absolutely make an objective argument that Ocarina of Time is bad. It’s still opinion, but merely depends on your standards.
ex fact0r
April 10, 2016 at 9:16 pm
Patrick, I could write a javascript function and my buddy Jim could write a similar function, with both blocks of code having the same objective. Both can be implemented into their respective websites, and both could work seemingly flawlessly, but if a knowledgeable person were to investigate the back end, they’d see that my function is 250 lines and contains multiple redundant statements which are wasting processing time/power, where are Jim’s code is 50 lines with no redundancies, which means my code is “bad”, and thats a fact. I did not optimize my work, where as Jim did. Yes, both functions work, but based upon the rules which govern “good” code from “bad” code, mine would be bad. Calling something “good” or “bad” is not always “pure opinion”, sorry.
Wii Sports is objectively bad in many fundamental game design aspects. You can disagree until the cows come home, but that doesn’t change the truth.
You can make an argument about aspects of Ocarina of Time being bad, and there are definitely subjective aspects which can be argued either way, but a logical individual with knowledge of video games cannot make a convincing objective argument stating Ocarina of Time should be labeled an overall “bad” game. That would be akin to saying Wayne Gretzkey wasn’t actually a great hockey player and all he did was hide behind Marty McSorley, or Pipen was actually better than Jordan, and while I’m sure there are people who’d be willing to champion those arguments, but they’d be objectively wrong.
Patrick
April 10, 2016 at 9:45 pm
Less efficient does not equate to “bad.” That is purely opinion. ALWAYS. Good and bad depend on perspective. To paraphrase The Princess Bride again, I do not think those words mean what you think they mean. Things can be done correctly or incorrectly based on meeting certain criteria demanded, but “good” and “bad” are always subjective. If you used one more line of code than your friend would that also be “bad?” Just one more line? What about ten lines? Who says how inefficient a working code must be before it becomes “bad?” Where are these rules you speak of? And what are the rules for video games? Amazing I’ve never heard of them or seen them listed out, but if they exist, please educate me. General consensus can be a guide for things, which is why we have places like Metacritic, but even a majority opinion does not equate to fact.
To many Wii Sports is a great game that works precisely because of its fundamental design. As usual, your “facts” are simply your opinion and nothing else. Any logical person with a knowledge of video games can see this.
ex fact0r
April 10, 2016 at 10:12 pm
I’m honestly laughing as i read this, because at this point I cannot tell if you are being serious or not.
To refer back to my previous example, I said my java script function was 250 lines of code where as Jim’s was 50. Now, I have a background and education and computer science, which I know others don’t have, so let me just state this plainly: there is a very huge difference between 50 lines and 250 of code. There is obviously varying degrees of efficiency, I didn’t think this needed to be pointed out. If my code was 60 lines, yes, it would be “less efficient”, but possibly still acceptable to most. But its not 60 lines, its 250 lines, and it includes redundancies. Do you know what happens if I keep making code that is inexcusably long and includes redundancies? I get fired, and Jim gets my workload, because my work is bad, and his work is good. This is not an opinion. It is fact.
If you want to sit here and claim that “good” and “bad” are nothing more than “opinions”, then go ahead and write up a piece and explain to the world why “Big Rigs: Over the Road Racing” is a good video game. You could write a 50,000 word manifesto, and all would be for naught, because the game is factually bad.
If you truly do believe that “good” and “bad” are always subjective then my time would be better spent talking to a tree.